The Forum

Has Aquilini even been played yet?? From what i heard and saw of him in Italy he was a class act and a very promising young player but i've rarely heard a mention of him since he arrived. Gerrard also might be in a bit of bother for making the old flying V gesture at the ref. Didn't see the game myself though so it could be a whole load of nothing.

you missed nothing Renius, we were dire... as impotent as I can remember watching.

Aquilani has played, he has shown some class but for the most part I can actually get how he is supposed to be playing, and whas worse is I am not sure he knows what his role is either.... I don't like to talk bad about our players ever, but i just don't see what Rafa see's in Lucas, he seems to chase his tail and gives the ball away far to often and doest pose much threat in attack either, he's had a couple of good games, but that just seems fools gold.

Is the Intertoto cup still played, might be our only chance at Europa league next year because even 6th is going to be a stretch with Villa on our heels... bah humbug

It would be a damn sight easier to tell you how I feel about the whole season in all honesty. My only problem may be the amount of swearing I need to do. I can sum up our problems in one word RAFA. I'm sorry but the guy has got to go. His priorities and the fans are a mile apart.

All we wanted at the start of the season was to make a serious run at the premiership title but all the fat Spanish waiter wanted was another run in Europe. How clearly can we say it? We want the league. I said it at the start of the season that I didn't give a F**k about the Champions league as long as we fought for the league. All we got from the kick off was Torres being rested in the prem to be played in the C.L. group stages. Pathetic.

Rafa has taken a team that under Houllier was technically poorer but had fight and spirit and turned them into a bunch of heartless, ill motivated slackers. He's ruined any team spirit with his constant swapping and changing and messing players about. Look at Yossi Benayoun. Our most consistent and creative player earlier in the season. Has spent the entire season either starting on the bench or being subbed after 60 mins. Now he looks the shadow of himself with no confidence. The same can be said for Gerrard, Carragher, Kuyt, Torres, Mascherano and Riena. They all look fed up to the back teeth of the way Rafa messes things up.

He's won 2 trophies in 6 years and both of them were with at least half a team that Houllier put together. Rafa keeps talking about his big plan and the long term. I'm sorry the longer it goes on the further we are from being a competitive club.

If Benitez had any dignity or honour he would do his best to get us back into the Champions League for next year and then stand down.

Edit: I would like to justify this little rant by saying I've been a Liverpool fan for the whole of my 36 years and this is possibly the worst state I've seen Liverpool in. The only other time I've seen the club this low was when Grahame Souness decided to ruin the last league winning side we had. I took years for Evans and Houllier to rebuild after that and it could take as long again this time round.

Y.N.W.A.

I'd still bet my house that you feckers beat us again next time we meet and derail our title hopes

Hey Gyp. Aren't you a bit harsh on Benitez? I mean we got second place last season and nearly got the title. It's basically the same team. There is something wrong at Liverpool, but I don't think blaming it all on Benitez is the right thing to do. Todays Liverpool is much better than the team under Houllier, and we have played class football under Benitez since he took the job, most notably last season, except for this.

Only two titles? Yes, but we've played finals and semifinals in the CL, which was unthinkable under Houllier. With Houllier we wanted to get top four, and winning PL was a wet dream. Benitez won CL the first season and that has haunted him ever since. We expect to fight over the CL title along with PL with Benitez in charge.

Alex Ferguson didn't win any more titles than Benitez have his first 4-5 years, if I remember correctly.

Liverpool struggle to keep up with sides such as Chelsea and United, but what do we expect with the owners we have? Last season we nearly got the nineteenth title, and how much money did Benitez get to complete his team? Nothing! We sold Alonso for 30, and Arbeloa for 3 and bought Aquilani for 17, and the marked went off the charts with Madrid in a buying-frenzy.

Yes, Benitez makes some mistakes, but he has given us players such as Torres, Mascherano, Reina, Agger, Benayoun, and Alonso (even though he left us). With some bright stars who might follow as Babel, Skrtel, Pacheco and Aquilani. He gave us the fifth Champions League title, and we've been fighting with top sides such as Arsenal, Chelsea, United, Barcelona, Madrid, Milan, etc, for five years under Benitez. Then we underperform one season and everyone wants his head.

I agree we've done awful this season, and something needs to be done. But who would honestly take a job at Liverpool with the financial situation here as it is, and which available manager could possibly do a better job than Benitez under these conditions? Who do you suggest take over?

Mizu, yes Benitez has improved the quality of some of the players. That really only reflects his vastly higher budget over Houllier. Houllier achieved what he did with what he had making Rafa's underachievment the more obvious.

Don't forget Houllier finished second in the prem in 2002. He was also the manager that got us to the Chpions league in the first place. He also started from a vastly lower starting point than Benitez who took over a champions league winning side and has ruined it. Don't think I am turning on Rafa based on this season alone. Like most people last season made me think he had changed his man managment for the better this season just proves it was just aflash in the pan.

I'm on my phone typing this so my argument will have to be brief but I will back myself up a bit more tommorow.

Fair enough. I didn't know Benitez had a vastly superior budget than Houllier. I do however doubt that the team Benitez took over would do so much better against teams like Chelsea and United than the one we got now though. And do you have any good suggestions of alternative managers?

It seems to me that, as you said Gyp, the players are slacking off. The fighting spirit Liverpool is renowned for, and what made fans like me begin cheering for them, is gone. I don't know what should be done to fix it, and I don't know what the problem is, but it might be more than just the manager. The owners for starters. I doubt they ooze of positive energy. The selling of the playmaker Alonso, when we so nearly got the title, surely didn't send the right signals, but what was Benitez supposed to do? He wanted to leave. Maybe it's because of all the injuries on players such as Gerrard, Torres, Agger and Skrtel? Or maybe it is because Benitez puts Babel in the game at the en of the match.

Sometimes, I agree though. He does make some strange decisions. Playing two defensive midfielders against expected weaker sides does seem a bit too careful. He didn't do the best job in the Alonso case, but neither Alonso nor Barry or any other helped either. Talents such as Babel don't get much playtime, but yeah.

Yet we do play class football against good teams. It's almost always the weaker teams we seem to slack off and play poorly. Maybe it's just morale.

Playing one against any opposition is too much for me. Anti-football, I call it.

I've made this point before, but I curse the fact that Makelele was such a good (but *very* limited) player - and was considered an integral part of Chelski's two recent premiership titles. The clueless managers have copied this, so we have the pathetic sight of midfielders that get a nosebleed if they cross the halfway line.

Rooney is having one hell of a cracking season :) great night for united!!! And Lyon knocked out the mighty Madrid!!!!!!

He seems to have really stepped up, and 30 goals so far this season is fantastic. Utd played some great football last night, and 4-3-3 signaled the intent clearly

Mizu just a bit a side to the discussion we are having check out the league finishes between rafa and Houllier.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liverpool_F.C._seasons

Almost identical in every way.

By the way my first choice as a replacement for Benitez would be Alex Mcleash (sp?) A top man manager if a little naive in the European market.

Mc Leish is an interesting choice Gyp but i agree he would be a good choice. Could he handle the pressure though of managing such an important club?

What about Reijkaard (spelling?) Think he's in Holland now but an approach for him would surely tempt him. Showed what he could do with Barca and played some fabulous football.

I think there's probably as much pressure to do well in the league at Rangers as there would be at liverpool, at least he has experience taking the local titles. I like him too, I'm not quite so critical of Rafa but then I don't get to the games live and its much harder to get the true feeling of the supporters and team in general when you have to read about it, so i'll take Gyps word for it.



as an even further aside (though this is the Liverpool thread right?)... i've never noticed that we won the 1904-05 div 2 title, got promoted and won the div 1 title the very next year. thats quite some achievment, has anyone else ever done that before? I know its been done by the likes of Gretna in the lower divisions, but don't know of anyone winning 2nd and then 1st tier titles one after other.
God we really are good arent we

After the result last night I fancy a flutter on Rafa being at Madrid next season.

I can't argue with that. Maybe you're right that a change of manager is all we need. I still have high respects for Benitez though, and I'm not so sure there are many others that could do a better job. Guess we just have to wait and see...

Thats worth a fifty buck bet for sure.

Would they want him?? His recent record isn't exactly glowing

Yeah, yeah very funny Manc boy.

Seriously though. I'm sure he could go back to Spain and win the league with Real Madrid no problem. He just hasn't got what it takes to win the league in England.

How about Claudio Ranieri I think he would relish the oportunity and do well for you.
What was his record at chelski?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claudio_Ranieri

I think he was unfairly treated after all he got bottomless pit of cash during his last season and was told in no uncertain terms to buy the best of the best and turn on the Brazil.

I think his best talent though is a fire fighter he seems to be able consistantly to turn struggling sides around and get them focussed. It just appears though that his tinkering undermines him after getting established.

however I'd like to see statistics which examine his player injuries compared to other managers who don't chop and change so much!





Sorry for interfering. Back to Coka Cola League one with me!

Tonight's Liverpool result is just going to make things worse, I fear. I think picking over the manager's future in the way that is currently happening is slightly unfair. Fair enough for the Liverpool fans to debate it, but everyone else pitching in is just a bit.... gratuitous.

Why is it that the club owners don't see the connection between what has been achieved at Arsenal and Manchester United and the long term backing of a manager? They must be soooooooo thick